Cesar Baldelomar, A Conversation About Conversation
Cesar "CJ" Baldelomar is currently a second-year doctoral student in Theology and Education at Boston College. His research blends critical theory and decolonial thought, exploring how knowledge production and consumption inform identity formation and the development of ethical paradigms. He holds two law degrees (LL.M. in Intercultural Human Rights and a Juris Doctor) from St. Thomas University School of Law and two graduate degrees from Harvard University. CJ is co-founder of Learning for Life Solutions, LLC and a former legal intern at the Southern Poverty Law Center. He a board member and the new secretary of the Spirituality and Sustainability Global Network.
Maddie: What are you working on and writing about at the moment?
Cesar: I have always been interested in reading and writing. Growing up, I was always thinking "what is a person's outlet?". I've always been very creative. At 13 I used to freestyle, rap, and write poetry - I still write poetry. I went to law school and worked and taught high school for a bit, but then realized I needed a job that would allow me to have a creative outlet. I could think of no better profession than being a professor, writing, researching, lecturing, and meeting other people with different ideas. I'm all about divergent opinions. I really think that is something we have lost as a society, accepting people with different opinions without trying to change them. Lately, my research is focused on the imagination. What is the imagination? What do we mean when we talk about religion, when we talk about spirituality, when we talk about politics? Ultimately, it all comes from someone's imagination, whether collective or individual. To me, the best thing we can do right now is to shake up the imagination and envision what never was. My research is focusing on that, especially religious imagination - how to dislodge thinking from what is called narrative logic. In my work, the fight is in academia because the world of ideas still matters. I think that's where professors and students can work together to dislodge the normative scripts that we all operate under, that have gotten us to the point we're at now - the breaking point. It's time for fresh thinking. My work takes into account scholarly work, but also play, music, art, street performance, street theater.
Maddie: I've been listening to a book about Saint Francis over the past few days, and it's interesting because I'm discovering that the ideas the SSGN is talking about have been around for thousands of years. They aren't new ways of thinking.
Cesar: That's a good point. Sometimes it's a simple recovery of things that have been in the tradition. For example, Harvey Cox, a theologian from Harvard, wrote a book called when "Jesus came to Harvard". In the '70s and '80s, he taught a class on Jesus. One of the things he highlights are two events - one where Jesus turns the tables at the temples, and one when he marches into Jerusalem on a donkey. Harvey Cox says that these are both perfect examples of street theater or street protest. Riding a donkey into Jerusalem was the equivalent of mocking the emperor, who used to ride into conquered cities on a white horse. Here, you have a poor Jewish guy riding in on a donkey, mocking the emperor.
Maddie: I didn't know the context of that story, but it adds to the meaning.
Cesar: Exactly! Because the emperor used to march in on a horse, he had people waving palms at him like a savior, a conquerer, a mighty king. And what did Jesus do? He said, "Cool, I'll ride into Jerusalem on a donkey to mock the Romans." Harvey argues that this interpretation has been lost because people prefer to think of Jesus as a personal friend, a savior, instead of having this side concerned with public and social justice. You're right, sometimes it's all about digging into the resources of the tradition and opening them up for reconsideration for the times.
Maddie: I think that contextual elements are important - you could read the story about the donkey and put the personal friend spin on it very easily. But if you don't know where it's coming from and what the tradition of the time was, it becomes a different story.
Cesar: That's where knowing the facts, knowing what the historical context was, comes in handy. That is my vocation, to open people's minds, not necessarily to change them. That is where I think many people go wrong, in trying to change them. It becomes a remorseful activity. I believe in giving people the facts, opening up their minds a little bit. I think they'll reach a conclusion eventually. As an educator, I believe in making sure that everyone can voice whatever they're feeling because that's also the best way to expose biases. If I'm a professor coming into the classroom and initially divulging my point of view, then I will silence many voices in the process. Then those people will live with those biases and never be heard and those biases will never be judged. Normally, what I do in a classroom is slowly divulge who I am as the semester goes on. It is a gradual kind of disclosure, and by that point, I hope I have offered enough comfort that all of us can disclose some part of us.
Maddie: It sounds like it is important for you to create an environment of conversation.
Cesar: Absolutely. That is what I do in my work as a scholar too, not just in the classroom. I have a business partner, we co-founded a business called Learning for Life Solutions. We network people from all walks of life and bring them together to foster interactive learning. We try to foster an understanding of what education is, we try to foster divergent opinions and bring them together to not necessarily agree, but to at least open up a conversation and dialogue. For me, it's very important to get the conversation going. That is probably the most essential thing we can do right now.
Maddie: I'm a firm believer in that, in all areas of life. Conversation is so important, and we don't often seek out opportunities to converse with people who are different from us. But it's the best way to learn! You need to learn how someone is feeling, what their experiences are, that is what will empower you to do something and make change - not hearing a fact.
Cesar: Hearing about experiences, what people are going through, learning to empathize and sympathize - all of that takes imagination, to be able to say I will never be in your shoes, but let me try to imagine a little bit what it is like. Then you gain some understanding. That goes for everyone - we all have our biases, our assumptions that need to be challenged. It takes a lot to say that you are wrong about your perceptions. That's where the work begins. I believe it's Cornel West that said it best - "It takes more courage for someone to dig into the recesses of their own soul than it does for a solider to be on a battlefield."
Maddie: What are your favorite courses to teach? What subjects are topics do you get the most excited to talk about?
Cesar: Definitely any topic that deals with philosophy. I'm a philosophy junkie, I love to think about how we know the things we know. That digs into the assumptions. I also love to teach theological courses, especially historical ones. You start to see people's eyes open. People's perceptions change - they read scripture passages completely differently when they learn about the context. I enjoy teaching any courses from an interdisciplinary perspective.
Maddie: I read a book about the historical context of the bible, and it was so fascinating. It changes everything.
Cesar: Right. They tell you about the three worlds of biblical interpretations - the world behind the text, the world of the text, and the world in front of the text.
Maddie: There are so many layers. Why would you say that a creative, imaginative approach is so important, especially in the context of the classroom?
Cesar: I think artistic expression is one of the best ways to be heard. When I ask students to write poetry, perform skits - they come alive. When they're writing papers? Sure. But to encourage a classroom approach that is multidisciplinary and multifaceted - I think that's where you start to dislodge stagnant imaginations. Creativity frees the mind of any rubric, any taxonomies or categorizations that come with paper writing. When students don't have to worry about a grade or doing an assignment within the confines of academic discourse, they become different people.
Maddie: It's coming from a place of curiosity, wonder. Is there a personal spiritual dimension to what you are doing? Is that practice important to you?
Cesar: Yes. As much as I don't talk about it, I would consider my spirituality to be mystical. I don't have a set ritual, but I do leave myself open to experiences, and I do see spiritual significance in things. Of course, that's the challenge. Sometimes that clashes with my reason, and sometimes I think to myself "do these stones really mean anything?" or "do my beads really protect my energy?" But in a way, it's more tangible than other spiritualities. I think to myself "these things come from the earth, they are charged with energies from the earth, from the cosmos." I do feel spirituality in terms of an interconnectedness with all of creation.